Wolf Chat

[jaguartail]

The amount of elk stays the same, it's just harder to catch them because the elk hide in their dens and such to stay out of the cold, and because it's harder to run when there's snow on the ground, making it harder to catch the elk. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe elk run slightly faster than wolves, wolves have to tire the elk out in order to kill them.

[Kivia]

I'm pretty sure elk don't hide in dens; they're grazers, so they usually just stay in herds. =3

Well after doing some reading, the winters are actually not that bad for wolves when it comes to hunting. The weather is actually in their favor because ungulates are more slow and sluggish in the snow and it is more difficult to find grasses to feed on. But also, if the winter is pretty mild, the prey is healthier, thus it may make it more difficult for wolves to catch them. And several bad winters in a row can reduce the prey population, which could also reduce the wolf population. And of course, other predators need to eat as well.
There are several things you need to factor in to see the difficulty in hunting for wolves during the winter.^^

Here's where I got my information if you're curious:
http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/basic/ ... te_dep.asp

[Alpha Female]

I haven't heard of elk hiding in dens.^^"
I found a great site if your looking for what elk do during the seasons (winter, spring, summer, autumn):
http://www.rmef.org/AllAboutElk/ElkSeasons/

As for wolves, that's interesting info Kivia. It's neat how the weather can effect both wolves and their prey.^^

[Zethra]

That's interesting news Kivia! I originally thought that the Winter season wouldn't work in the favor of wolves.
Lol looks like I was wrong there.

I think that the fact with Elk having dens and such are probably mistaken with Deer and such maybe having a shelter similar to one during the winter season?
That or Bambi is way off the chart. xD

Dens and stuff though are usually associated with carnivorous creatures and/or omnivorous "predators", not herbivorous or "prey".
Such as Foxes and such, they tend to have dens but elk and a lot of other prey creatures similar to elk don't.

[-x-Zaroque-x-]

I think your everyday Deer wouldn't have dens as such, though Shelter where the heard can stay, safety in numbers ^^
Also, as Zethra said, it's normaly something with Carnvivours or Ominvours, also. Burrows are also similer to Dens.

[Kivia]

I think that the fact with Elk having dens and such are probably mistaken with Deer and such maybe having a shelter similar to one during the winter season?
That or Bambi is way off the chart. xD

Yes, deer usually hide in the undergrowth when they give birth. I remembered reading that last night^^
http://www.diaa.org/DV-general.htm
But that is in the Spring if I remember correctly.

And yeah, ungulates usually stay in herds for safety in numbers. =3 Most of the other animals either hibernate or tough it out by feeding on ungulates or alternative prey (in the case of carnivores), like wolves do.^^

[Zethra]

Ah, thanks for that Kivia. It's quite interesting how you find animals, prey and predators, acting in the same way sometimes. The wonders of nature. ^^

Burrows are also similer to Dens.

I agree with that, Burrows are similar to Dens, however, Burrows are more used by Prey animals, from my understanding, then Dens are.
I believe that Foxes use dens, usually being that of an old den made by a Coyote or Badger so that they can protect their scent from those that hunt them (dogs, coyotes).


Another interesting fact, if I remember correctly, Coyotes tend to hunt foxes, or the Swift Fox I think, but they don't eat them. I suppose that it is a similar behavior to what Wolves do with Coyotes?

[Sweetpea RAWR]

Well I thought wolves ran faster than elk, but maybe that was just an assumption. Wolves in the wild don't get to pick how fast and strong they are . Also, I think a burrow is used by smaller animals like rabbits and sometimes foxes. Burrows are usually small holes in the ground whereas dens can be anything from caves to gaps under tree roots. I don't think an elk would fit in a burrow.

[Kivia]

Yep yep, small prey like mice and voles use burrows during the winter to keep warm.
http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/artic ... ldlife.htm

Wolves aren't necessarily faster than elk, but they have great stamina. As long as they can keep up the chase, then they simply have to wear out the elk so they can more easily kill it. =3
http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/basic/faqs/faq.asp#23

Always have a need to post links, haha.

[Zethra]

Ohyes.
I would believe a wolf wouldn't be as fast as an elk, or faster, since the elk DOES have to have some defensive mechanism.
Unlike the game; wolves in real life don't always get their meal. Don't they usually work in groups to get the elk? One to slow it down, and the others to drag the elk down to the ground? Or something like that?
I think the only animal that has more speed than stamina when it comes to prey would be - the cheetah. But that's off topic; so lets not go there. xD

Also, I think a burrow is used by smaller animals like rabbits and sometimes foxes.

Yeah, burrows are used by rabbits aswell. I think a few other animals; like the burrowing owl, use them aswell.

I believe that Foxes use dens, usually being that of an old den made by a Coyote or Badger so that they can protect their scent from those that hunt them (dogs, coyotes).

[Kivia]

The success rate for hunting is actually substantially low; I forget the exact number though.

While I was looking for a percentage, I found this though:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_mXHuS ... e&q&f=true
Bit of a long URL, but it's a link to a book by David Mech, with the section on the success rate of hunting, if you want to learn more about it^^

Oh, and about hunting strategies; I found a page about that as well:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_mXHuS ... e&q&f=true

I may have to read this entire book in my spare time...it has a lot of useful information in it.

[Canidae]

An alternate description of some wolf hunting methods, by wolf scientist Shaun Ellis in his book Spirit of the Wolf (pgs 110-111):

Successful hunting requires various techniques, depending on the size of the quarry. Stalking in long grass or ambush are used to catch smaller animals. During an ambush the pack splits into two or more groups, and one will chase the animal toward the remaining pack members, camouflaged in the trees or bushes. Wolves have been seen to pick up snow in their mouths so that their breath will not be visible to their prey. Once the prey is caught, one bite around the neck and a few shakes will quickly kill the animal.

Another technique is intimidation. Wolves single out their prey and try to get it to run - there is less danger from hooves and horns when the animal moves away from them and cannot turn to defend itself. Wolves have been known to move at a top speed of between 30 and 40 miles per hour, and they can maintain this pace for an hour if they need to. Or, if they are chasing a large, healthy ungulate, such as elk or moose, they can stay the course and deny their quarry food, water, rest and herd security for up to two weeks. The wolves wound their quarry by snapping at it from time to time, and eventually the larger animals will collapse from loss of blood and exhaustion.

If some of those facts sounded strange to you...don't worry, they sounded strange to me, too. In fact, this entire book is full of weird facts that I've never heard of before. I'm not sure if Shaun is overanalyzing things or if he's actually made tons of new discoveries about wolves.

In Spirit of the Wolves, Shaun Ellis claims:

- The typical pack is comprised of an Alpha pair, a Beta pair, lower-ranking wolves, an Omega, and pups.
- Eye contact isn't really used to convey dominance, like previously thought. Instead, muzzles and teeth are used.
- The Alpha pair's muzzles will usually be clearly highlighted with bold lines and colors.
- In addition to this, he states that the fur on the Alpha pair is made up of dark markings. A bold black line can be seen all the way from their mane to the tip of their tail. Lesser-ranking wolves have lighter pelts.
- The Alpha pair have a stronger odor than any of the other wolves in the pack, because they eat the vital organs such as heart, liver, and kidneys.
- Beta wolves will have bold markings like the Alphas, but their markings will be broken and split into patches.
- Female wolves will more frequently make the first strike on a prey animal than males.
- The Alpha female leads the hunt, and by adjusting the position of her tail, she releases an odor that tells the other pack members what way to go.
- Before hunting, the Alpha female will find a scrap of food, such as a deer antler, and use it to tell the other pack members exactly what they're going to hunt.
- The Alpha female analyzes the pack's needs, and chooses prey based on what she thinks the pack needs.
- The Alpha pair will howl with low, short tones. Beta wolves howl with longer tones that are higher in pitch than the Alphas', but still low-pitched.
- Wolves have a sense of smell 100,000 times greater than our own.
- Wolves can cover 100 miles in a single day.
- If a wolf needs to immediately run, they will sometimes barf up the contents of their stomach so they can run faster.
- The Alpha pair will use dangerous parts of prey, such as hooves and antlers, to train their pups how to hunt. They'll pick up, for example, a deer antler, and jab it at their pups if the pups approach them from the front.
- Scientists are currently researching whether the type of food the pack eats enables the alpha female to predetermine seven or eight months before her breeding season the number and gender of pups she will have, depending on whether their purpose in life will be to stay with the pack or to move away and establish a new pack in a neighboring territory. Without other wolf packs on the borders of the Alpha female's territory, prey is often lost as it escapes into areas where there are no wolves. Wolf packs flush out and drive prey back and forth between territories, so an unoccupied adjacent territory represents potential loss of food.





Sorry for the long list.


But...weird, huh? I know he's a renowed scientist and all...but sheesh, those are some strange claims.

[jaguartail]

He's got it wrong on Heirachy. It's parents, subordinates, yearlings, pups. Real packs have no true beta pair or omega wolf.

[Zethra]

But...weird, huh? I know he's a renowed scientist and all...but sheesh, those are some strange claims.

Yes, weird, but also interesting. Sometimes the weirdest things in live can lead to the most interesting things. Correct?

He's got it wrong on Heirachy. It's parents, subordinates, yearlings, pups. Real packs have no true beta pair or omega wolf.

I'm pretty sure it's an older book; the terms Alpha, Beta, Delta ect are usually the easiest ways to define wolves (I think). Even though it isn't correct terms anymore; it's probably either so that a lot more people can understand what he's talking about; OR it could just be an older book and therefor outdated by timeline affected things [like wolf hierarchy].

Either way the book sounds interesting; I may take a look at it.

[-x-Zaroque-x-]

Ah, thanks for that Kivia. It's quite interesting how you find animals, prey and predators, acting in the same way sometimes. The wonders of nature. ^^

Burrows are also similer to Dens.

I agree with that, Burrows are similar to Dens, however, Burrows are more used by Prey animals, from my understanding, then Dens are.
I believe that Foxes use dens, usually being that of an old den made by a Coyote or Badger so that they can protect their scent from those that hunt them (dogs, coyotes).


Another interesting fact, if I remember correctly, Coyotes tend to hunt foxes, or the Swift Fox I think, but they don't eat them. I suppose that it is a similar behavior to what Wolves do with Coyotes?

I mean by that, that they have a similar use of shelter and protection. Though most of the time they are used by omvinvourus creates like that. ^^ Intersting facts though Zethra.