Should WolfQuest add the ability to hunt fish?

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Do you think WQ wolves should hunt fish?

Yes, I believe that there is enough evidence!
2
29%
No, I don't believe that there is enough evidence.
1
14%
Maybe, but there isn't enough evidence to suggest whether or not wolves eat fish.
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57%
 
Total votes: 7

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Should WolfQuest add the ability to hunt fish?

Post by -Wolfdog- » Sat May 22, 2021 10:01 am

I know that WolfQuest doesn't plan to add the ability to hunt for our own fish anytime soon. That's probably because wolves have only been seen hunting fish in coastal forests. Despite that, I've found some evidence of wolves hunting fish in the mainland/boreal forest. (Including Yellowstone!)

Source:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub
https://m.facebook.com/VoyageursWolfPro ... 151605940/
https://www.nps.gov/articles/wolf-preda ... -river.htm

^^^ Evidence of wolves outside of British Columbia (and surrounding islands) hunting and/or consuming fish, including Yellowstone.

Whether or not it's a regular occurrence is hard to say (most likely not, in Yellowstone). But I think WQ's rivers and streams could seriously use some more fish, because a wolf "finding" a fish dropped by an eagle is arguably much rarer and more unrealistic.

Hunting strategy:
Wolves will wait near the riverbank where the water is more shallow, and then quickly strike the fish and pull it out of the water. It won't become a main part of WQ wolves' diets, since it's too much effort for too little reward, similar to how hares aren't designed to feed an entire wolf, BUT that doesn't mean it can't be used as a quick snack when a player is struggling.

*If wolves in Minnesota live in a similar region and climate as wolves in Wyoming, and are not pressured into hunting fish (unlike the wolves in British Columbia), this may mean that adding fish in WQ isn't too far-fetched.

Is this enough evidence to *maybe* convince WolfQuest to add fish?? Because the map's creeks, lakes, and rivers are all very barren and are sparsely populated with fish, which seems kinda unrealistic if we're aiming for realism here.
Last edited by -Wolfdog- on Sun May 23, 2021 10:06 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Should WolfQuest add the ability to hunt fish?

Post by Neamara » Sat May 22, 2021 2:06 pm

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Re: Should WolfQuest add the ability to hunt fish?

Post by -Wolfdog- » Sun May 23, 2021 9:59 am

Oops, didn't realize it was in the wrong board.
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Re: Should WolfQuest add the ability to hunt fish?

Post by SkyRiderMusic » Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:51 am

While it's possible that a yellowstone wolf might go after fish, the game wants to encourage more common behaviors, like hunting elk. Fishing takes a lot of energy and not a lot of reward. Maybe for a solo wolf it could be a meal, but certainly now a whole family. The devs want players to make decisions like a yellowstobe wolf, and I think many players would go bonkers if you could fish. I think the eagle dropping feature is nice, as it represents not only eagle hunting, but also it represents fish in the game. While it may be "unrealistic" for a wolf to get a eagle dropped fish, it's not meant to be a super common occurence unless you're looking for it and following the eagles. A wolf might stumble upon a dropped fish and wouldn't pass up free food, but I don't think a wolf would waste energy catch small morsels when there are ungulates like elk that provide much more food.

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Re: Should WolfQuest add the ability to hunt fish?

Post by Koa » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:36 pm

-Wolfdog- wrote:*If wolves in Minnesota live in a similar region and climate as wolves in Wyoming, and are not pressured into hunting fish (unlike the wolves in British Columbia), this may mean that adding fish in WQ isn't too far-fetched.
They're different.
SkyRiderMusic wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:51 am
While it's possible that a yellowstone wolf might go after fish, the game wants to encourage more common behaviors, like hunting elk. Fishing takes a lot of energy and not a lot of reward. Maybe for a solo wolf it could be a meal, but certainly now a whole family. The devs want players to make decisions like a yellowstobe wolf, and I think many players would go bonkers if you could fish. I think the eagle dropping feature is nice, as it represents not only eagle hunting, but also it represents fish in the game. While it may be "unrealistic" for a wolf to get a eagle dropped fish, it's not meant to be a super common occurence unless you're looking for it and following the eagles. A wolf might stumble upon a dropped fish and wouldn't pass up free food, but I don't think a wolf would waste energy catch small morsels when there are ungulates like elk that provide much more food.
Beavers (which I bring up because VWP was cited in the original post of this thread) were added to WolfQuest despite a lack of evidence that wolves hunt beavers in Yellowstone as Dave notes in his blog video, so the Yellowstone wolf angle cannot really be applied here. Beaver hunting has not been observed in Yellowstone wolves; however, like fish hunting behaviors, it has been observed in the wolves under study by the Voyageurs Wolf Project and said studies influenced the inclusion of beaver hunting in-game. These wolves hunt beavers more than they do fish (or at least from what VWP can observe). In the context of Voyageur Wolf Project studies, I would think that the relative infrequency of wolves hunting fish, as opposed to beavers, might be why such a behavior is not featured in the game. Like you pointed out, food reward matters. There is more of a food reward in ungulates compared to beavers. There is also more of a food reward in beavers compared to fish. From a development standpoint, there may be less incentive for the team to create entirely new behaviors when the food reward for in-game wolves would likely not be significant. I agree with you in that the fish dropping is a nice stand-in.

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Re: Should WolfQuest add the ability to hunt fish?

Post by -Wolfdog- » Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:58 pm

Koa wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:36 pm
-Wolfdog- wrote:*If wolves in Minnesota live in a similar region and climate as wolves in Wyoming, and are not pressured into hunting fish (unlike the wolves in British Columbia), this may mean that adding fish in WQ isn't too far-fetched.
They're different.
SkyRiderMusic wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:51 am
While it's possible that a yellowstone wolf might go after fish, the game wants to encourage more common behaviors, like hunting elk. Fishing takes a lot of energy and not a lot of reward. Maybe for a solo wolf it could be a meal, but certainly now a whole family. The devs want players to make decisions like a yellowstobe wolf, and I think many players would go bonkers if you could fish. I think the eagle dropping feature is nice, as it represents not only eagle hunting, but also it represents fish in the game. While it may be "unrealistic" for a wolf to get a eagle dropped fish, it's not meant to be a super common occurence unless you're looking for it and following the eagles. A wolf might stumble upon a dropped fish and wouldn't pass up free food, but I don't think a wolf would waste energy catch small morsels when there are ungulates like elk that provide much more food.
Beavers (which I bring up because VWP was cited in the original post of this thread) were added to WolfQuest despite a lack of evidence that wolves hunt beavers in Yellowstone as Dave notes in his blog video, so the Yellowstone wolf angle cannot really be applied here. Beaver hunting has not been observed in Yellowstone wolves; however, like fish hunting behaviors, it has been observed in the wolves under study by the Voyageurs Wolf Project and said studies influenced the inclusion of beaver hunting in-game. These wolves hunt beavers more than they do fish (or at least from what VWP can observe). In the context of Voyageur Wolf Project studies, I would think that the relative infrequency of wolves hunting fish, as opposed to beavers, might be why such a behavior is not featured in the game. Like you pointed out, food reward matters. There is more of a food reward in ungulates compared to beavers. There is also more of a food reward in beavers compared to fish. From a development standpoint, there may be less incentive for the team to create entirely new behaviors when the food reward for in-game wolves would likely not be significant. I agree with you in that the fish dropping is a nice stand-in.


Could you further explain on why they might be different? Different environment, different ecological niche, etc? I'm guessing it has something to do with a combination of things. I based my assumption off the fact that Minnesota and Wyoming are land-locked, and fish are only accessible through streams, so wolves are voluntarily fishing unless if I'm missing something?

And yes, I agree that it would take some time to incorporate new game mechanics for such a small food item. Although I disagree that eagles dropping fish is realistic nor a sufficient stand in for realistic wolf behavior. The chances of a wolf scaring an eagle appear to be quite low, in comparison to a wolf fishing. I haven't heard of wolves doing this in real life (scaring eagles), but the more proof the better. Some day I'd like to see fishing mechanics added. This could be at the bottom of wolfquest's wishlist, it's not a major priority. But I think it would make a lot more sense to other players. Fish aren't major food sources so this alone may deter most players from surviving solely off of fish, similar to hares.
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Re: Should WolfQuest add the ability to hunt fish?

Post by SkyRiderMusic » Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:58 pm

Wyoming and Minnesota are completely different ecosystems, especially in the context of where wolves live. You can tell just by looking on a map. Yellowstone is roughly 8000 feet above sea level, where Minnesota is only a few thousand. Voyageurs national park has so many lakes and tributaries, with not many mountains, where Yellowstone has lots of mountains. Yellowstone has a bunch of ungulates, specifically elk, and Voyageurs doesn't have elk.

Because of this, they have very different habits depending on location. So unless WolfQuest makes a Voyageurs DLC, I definitely think that fishing isn't a big priority


And the eagle dropping thing was more of a "that's not a bug, that's a feature" thing. In one of the devblogs, it was mentioned that eagles just had a hunting animation and sometimes they'd drop fish as a bug, so it was added for gameplay. It's far more realistic for a yellowstone wolf to accidentally happen upon a fish rather than to actively seek it out when there's elk around

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