Ideas for Future Updates

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Re: Ideas for New Episodes/Future Updates

Post by -Wolfdog- » Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:22 pm

It bothers me how all elder wolves have reached the age of 8. Like does something happen at the age of 8 that causes wolves to automatically die, lol? Plenty of wild wolf wolves have surpassed the age of 8. The age of 8 is far too young in my opinion. Additionally I think several factors could increase/decrease a wolf's life expectancy once they obtain the "Elder wolf" rank. Generally speaking, as wolves get older, they are less efficient at hunting, defending, and transversing throughout their environment. Low health, low hunger, and low stamina can potentially affect the probability at which age an elder wolf dies at (or decrease as a wolf gets older). Instead of having all old wolves die at 8, players can see wolves who've died at the ages of 8,9,10,11, and 12. It makes things feel so much more immersive and like the wolves each have their own story to tell.
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Re: Ideas for New Episodes/Future Updates

Post by DinoDogDude209 » Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:03 pm

-Wolfdog- wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:22 pm
It bothers me how all elder wolves have reached the age of 8. Like does something happen at the age of 8 that causes wolves to automatically die, lol? Plenty of wild wolf wolves have surpassed the age of 8. The age of 8 is far too young in my opinion. Additionally I think several factors could increase/decrease a wolf's life expectancy once they obtain the "Elder wolf" rank. Generally speaking, as wolves get older, they are less efficient at hunting, defending, and transversing throughout their environment. Low health, low hunger, and low stamina can potentially affect the probability at which age an elder wolf dies at (or decrease as a wolf gets older). Instead of having all old wolves die at 8, players can see wolves who've died at the ages of 8,9,10,11, and 12. It makes things feel so much more immersive and like the wolves each have their own story to tell.
I wholeheartedly agree. I understand that there needs to be a maximum age, but eight just seems so arbitrary to me. Sure, very few wolves live to the age of twelve, but I think having the likelihood of death increase every year as an Elder Wolf would be a good way to balance this out. In my opinion, having twelve as the maximum possible age would be a lot more logical than eight.

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Re: Ideas for New Episodes/Future Updates

Post by SkyRiderMusic » Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:22 pm

You do realize that you can grow older than 8, right? Some players have lived to 9 or even 10. 8 isn't a hard maximum at all

Still, I imagine the chance of elder wolf death could be decreased for the saga, considering that a full "year" will then include the fall and winter missions

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Re: Ideas for New Episodes/Future Updates

Post by solar-mutt » Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:39 pm

SkyRiderMusic wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:22 pm
You do realize that you can grow older than 8, right? Some players have lived to 9 or even 10. 8 isn't a hard maximum at all

Still, I imagine the chance of elder wolf death could be decreased for the saga, considering that a full "year" will then include the fall and winter missions
While it's not an absolute maximum, 9 or 10 can be pretty hard to reach without working around the premonition of death and not sleeping. It's possible but you're not really meant to. I think the game would be much nicer if it was a bit easier to reach 9 or 10, and 11 and 12 being possible but not all that common. As others have said I think age 8 should give you a 20% chance of having a preminition of death and increasing by 20% each year, going to 40% at 9 and so on. As you said it should be lowered in the saga to account for the full year and I think this would be a great way to do it and make elder wolves feel more diverse without ignoring in-game mechanics.

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Re: Ideas for New Episodes/Future Updates

Post by -Wolfdog- » Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:07 pm

solar-mutt wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:39 pm
SkyRiderMusic wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:22 pm
You do realize that you can grow older than 8, right? Some players have lived to 9 or even 10. 8 isn't a hard maximum at all

Still, I imagine the chance of elder wolf death could be decreased for the saga, considering that a full "year" will then include the fall and winter missions
While it's not an absolute maximum, 9 or 10 can be pretty hard to reach without working around the premonition of death and not sleeping. It's possible but you're not really meant to. I think the game would be much nicer if it was a bit easier to reach 9 or 10, and 11 and 12 being possible but not all that common. As others have said I think age 8 should give you a 20% chance of having a preminition of death and increasing by 20% each year, going to 40% at 9 and so on. As you said it should be lowered in the saga to account for the full year and I think this would be a great way to do it and make elder wolves feel more diverse without ignoring in-game mechanics.
Fun fact: There have been wild wolves reaching the ripe old age of 13, but no wolves in Yellowstone have been documented reaching that age. I think if we were to extend the age of a wolf's life, ironwolf should be turned on once a wolf reaches the age of 8.

Another great feature I'd love to see added is that your mate has the ability to "woof" your pups into the den. A social or cautious wolf would be more likely to woof your pups into the den during an attack. This feature would be pretty helpful when your mate is on guard or goes on a solo hunting trip and your pups are out and about when roaming across the den site, since predator attacks can still occur when your mate is on guard (I don't think mates should be able to squeak pups out of the den, since they might mess up, or the player doesn't want the pups roaming around without being there).
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Re: Ideas for New Episodes/Future Updates

Post by Phasoli » Thu Mar 10, 2022 10:37 am

An idea that's been kinda swimming in my head recently is the concept of travel/continuous maps. This is assuming that we get more maps beyond Tower Fall. Now, I know that having one big Yellowstone Map would not only be a lot of work, but take a lot to run. But what if the Yellowstone maps were split by region (As Amethyst and Slough Creek are now) and let the player travel to transition zones in order to visit new areas (like say, the Star on the compass after the Find A Mate Quest)? The idea is inspired The Long Dark. That game's map is huge! But its maps are not continuous in that it's separated by loading screens and smaller transition zones. Players have to travel entirely by foot in order to get to new places. There's no teleporting, no selecting a map at a menu screen to change location after spawning in/etc--and I feel like that same kind of travel mechanic would work really well for WolfQuest. Wolves are quite the travelers, after all!

Not sure how much detail is going to be put into the passing seasons at this point for the saga, but it would be cool to have a continuous cycle of time, too, versus quest-based time. The seasons could pass naturally. You could thus age whether your pack had surviving pups that year or not. The only timespan that warrants a quest-based skip, I feel, is the Establish Territory/Find a Den Quest. Though, I'm not sure how future gameplay in those seasons will change with the Saga. But personally, I feel like the game should end with your wolf--not your pups or your pack.

One more contact emote that I'd love to see in the game is a jaw-spar emote. I understand that these are difficult to implement, but I thought I'd write my two-cents about it anyway, haha. A little jaw-spar emote would be cute to perform with your mate and/or growing pups for the saga. Having a sort of playtime mechanic with your pack members would not only be adorable, but factor into raising affinity outside of just emoting with them. What if you could play a minigame of chase with your prospective mates in Amethyst to gauge their energy/laziness level? It'd be pretty cool and engaging!

Last but not least, a head-tilt emote would be cute. You can currently see some dispersals doing this during courtship sometimes. But a little head-tilt could really do well to voice confusion in multiplayer no-chat games.

Just some thoughts! :D
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Re: Ideas for New Episodes/Future Updates

Post by solar-mutt » Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:49 am

Phasoli wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 10:37 am
An idea that's been kinda swimming in my head recently is the concept of travel/continuous maps. This is assuming that we get more maps beyond Tower Fall. Now, I know that having one big Yellowstone Map would not only be a lot of work, but take a lot to run. But what if the Yellowstone maps were split by region (As Amethyst and Slough Creek are now) and let the player travel to transition zones in order to visit new areas (like say, the Star on the compass after the Find A Mate Quest)? The idea is inspired The Long Dark. That game's map is huge! But its maps are not continuous in that it's separated by loading screens and smaller transition zones. Players have to travel entirely by foot in order to get to new places. There's no teleporting, no selecting a map at a menu screen to change location after spawning in/etc--and I feel like that same kind of travel mechanic would work really well for WolfQuest. Wolves are quite the travelers, after all!

Not sure how much detail is going to be put into the passing seasons at this point for the saga, but it would be cool to have a continuous cycle of time, too, versus quest-based time. The seasons could pass naturally. You could thus age whether your pack had surviving pups that year or not. The only timespan that warrants a quest-based skip, I feel, is the Establish Territory/Find a Den Quest. Though, I'm not sure how future gameplay in those seasons will change with the Saga. But personally, I feel like the game should end with your wolf--not your pups or your pack.

Just some thoughts! :D
I (mostly) agree! It'd be awesome to simply travel on foot (paw?) to new areas. It'd be more emersive that way! It would also make the smaller maps feel like they blend into one.

I think some time skips or changes should be optional to the player though, like how before finding a den you can hit "stay here" or something similar to endless summer (endless autumn, staying with your older pups instead of having a new litter?) if so chosen by the player.

Same thing with the pack continuation. I think it should be up to both chance and choice; a mixture. It'd be cool if only if you happened to have adult offspring in the pack (most likely 2-4) you could chose to continue on as one of them or end your pack. No adults to take over, pack dissolves.

In addition, it makes me think about how your pack stats will work when you have multiple litters (last years pups, now yearlings, and your new one-month-olds, for example). I think it'd keep things uncluttered to have tabs for each litter, reading "pups" and "yearlings," plus a tab for any adults you may have (again most likely ranging 2-4 since you probably wouldn't have many). This way you could still keep an eye at least on their health and hunger (weight and awakefulness shouldn't matter as much once they're grown) without clutter.

EDIT: on the matter of the game ending, I think there are two good options; either once your first litter survives it doesn't end until player-wolf dies or only ends if you have no surviving offspring in the pack. However I think it'd be best if there is no end, until you die, even if you have no offspring in the pack, so you don't lose the little world you have there. Your grown pups may have a pack of their own and you might want to be able to visit them still (if that's a thing.)
  • 16-MAR-2022 POST MERGE
There needs to be a heavier consequence for 0% awakefullness. Your wolf is about to pass out, literally can't be awake...but also can still run around and defend territory? There should be a think where you can't run at all, only trot, or be forced to sleep after a while.

EDIT 2: I think there should also be a way to rename pups from the family tree or otherwise rename dead pups. Theres a pup I really need to rename but he died 😅...if possible anyways!
Plus if a whole litter is lost, they should still appear in family tree (all listed dead) so that they are not forgotten...
  • 23-MAR-2022 POST MERGE
On the topic of LIMPY...
I wonder if it would be possible to bring it back...I understand they had issues before with it. What if they make the limp leg instead of actually a leg with a slider...an on/off toggle like the radio collar, with the leg itself being listed in coding as an object instead of leg so that it doesn't have issues with the ground. Ideally limpy wolves would have a seperate walk/trot animation but of course I'm sure this would be hard.
Last edited by Neamara on Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Merged double post in accordance with the forum guidelines.

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Re: Ideas for New Episodes/Future Updates

Post by Runic_Raptor » Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:43 am

As much as I'd love to have a transition zone to make the maps seem continuous, I think about how much space there is between some of the locations and how long it would take to travel. It could be fun for some serious players to have a sense of continuity, but I think the effort involved in making that transition map would not end up being worth it based on the number of players who would actually want to travel for that long rather than just skip it. Just a very VERY rough estimate, it would probably be at least the length of 7 Slough Creek maps between Slough Creek and Amethyst Mountain.

I'd personally probably really enjoy it, but I don't know how much use it would really get - especially compared to the hours the devs would have to spend making it.

---

I also agree about the wakefulness needing more consequences. I personally abuse that so much when building territory for the first time. I just straight up don't sleep until I have 30 hexes, I've chosen a den, AND the pups are born. If you don't sleep between those time periods, your territory won't decay beyond what happens naturally while you're awake (I didn't even realize it did decay until I decided to discover every den before choosing one and it took long enough that my initial hexes had begun to fall low).

Maybe if the devs don't want to "force" your wolf to fall asleep against your will, maybe after your wakefulness has reached zero, your hunger starts draining faster? So it becomes dangerous to stay awake forever, but at no point will your wolf fall asleep against your will.

I'm not sure how hard that would be to implement, but something like that could prevent you from losing control of your wolf.

Or just, your stamina will drain further making most actions impossible. I get more milage than I should out of that tiny stamina bar.

---

Something I hope we see with Saga coming out is transitioning the end of a pup's time with the pack to the beginning of playing as that pup.

Assuming we get something like pups having a chance to stay longer than 2 years with the pack instead of them all simultaneously deciding to leave at 2 years (which from a game development standpoint, may be what we get. I hope not, but it's certainly a possibility), it would then be weird to leave the beginning of the "Amethyst Mountain" arc exactly the same.

If a wolf stays with their home pack until they're 3 or 4, it would be weird to then start their life at age 2.

In a similar vein, personally I dislike the learn to hunt by killing two elk on your own thing.

It'd be cool if you could disperse with a packmate (as wolves often do, and we see other dispersals hanging out with their siblings), or if that introductory quest was otherwise reworked to be a little less unrealistic. Wolves often fail hunts even in groups, and taking on elk on your own has always been a little odd to me.

Personally I use the "Hunt two elk" quest as a shorthand for everything that happened to that wolf between reaching 20 pounds and becoming a two-year-old. If they die hunting elk, then something happened to them in that time period. Something that isn't: they took on an elk by themselves and then died.

But with saga coming out, that time period is accounted for. So (for largely personal reasons), I hope something is done to update that quest when saga comes out.
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Re: Ideas for New Episodes/Future Updates

Post by solar-mutt » Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:11 pm

Runic_Raptor wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:43 am
As much as I'd love to have a transition zone to make the maps seem continuous, I think about how much space there is between some of the locations and how long it would take to travel. It could be fun for some serious players to have a sense of continuity, but I think the effort involved in making that transition map would not end up being worth it based on the number of players who would actually want to travel for that long rather than just skip it. Just a very VERY rough estimate, it would probably be at least the length of 7 Slough Creek maps between Slough Creek and Amethyst Mountain.

I'd personally probably really enjoy it, but I don't know how much use it would really get - especially compared to the hours the devs would have to spend making it.

---

I also agree about the wakefulness needing more consequences. I personally abuse that so much when building territory for the first time. I just straight up don't sleep until I have 30 hexes, I've chosen a den, AND the pups are born. If you don't sleep between those time periods, your territory won't decay beyond what happens naturally while you're awake (I didn't even realize it did decay until I decided to discover every den before choosing one and it took long enough that my initial hexes had begun to fall low).

Maybe if the devs don't want to "force" your wolf to fall asleep against your will, maybe after your wakefulness has reached zero, your hunger starts draining faster? So it becomes dangerous to stay awake forever, but at no point will your wolf fall asleep against your will.

I'm not sure how hard that would be to implement, but something like that could prevent you from losing control of your wolf.

Or just, your stamina will drain further making most actions impossible. I get more milage than I should out of that tiny stamina bar.

---

Something I hope we see with Saga coming out is transitioning the end of a pup's time with the pack to the beginning of playing as that pup.

Assuming we get something like pups having a chance to stay longer than 2 years with the pack instead of them all simultaneously deciding to leave at 2 years (which from a game development standpoint, may be what we get. I hope not, but it's certainly a possibility), it would then be weird to leave the beginning of the "Amethyst Mountain" arc exactly the same.

If a wolf stays with their home pack until they're 3 or 4, it would be weird to then start their life at age 2.

In a similar vein, personally I dislike the learn to hunt by killing two elk on your own thing.

It'd be cool if you could disperse with a packmate (as wolves often do, and we see other dispersals hanging out with their siblings), or if that introductory quest was otherwise reworked to be a little less unrealistic. Wolves often fail hunts even in groups, and taking on elk on your own has always been a little odd to me.

Personally I use the "Hunt two elk" quest as a shorthand for everything that happened to that wolf between reaching 20 pounds and becoming a two-year-old. If they die hunting elk, then something happened to them in that time period. Something that isn't: they took on an elk by themselves and then died.

But with saga coming out, that time period is accounted for. So (for largely personal reasons), I hope something is done to update that quest when saga comes out.
I agree with most of what you have to say here but I think the elk hunt is important to gameplay. It doesn't have to be solo, having a few littermates as an addition would be great, but from a gamer aspect I think the first quest should stay. Without it you can go the whole game without hunting until you have hungry pups. If you don't learn to hunt before then it would be a problem. Plus it gives players some time to get used to the game before having to attempt courtship. We can get used to the controls and such first.

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Re: Ideas for New Episodes/Future Updates

Post by Runic_Raptor » Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:12 am

I don't mean to say that the quest should be removed entirely, but I do definitely hope that it sees an update after Saga, so that it flows nicely with the story cycle as a whole, as well as the whole solo wolf hunts not usually going so great in real life.

It definitely needs to exist, I just hope it gets touched up a bit. I think it may be a little funny to be playing as a wolf you just taught to hunt as their parents, then having a quest "Learn to Hunt"
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Re: Ideas for New Episodes/Future Updates

Post by SmolGrimm2021 » Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:47 am

I got a neat idea for the wolf player creator part, what if there was a way to mix your wolves? Just pick a male, female or ones of same genders and mix em, to create a randomised wolf. Could work for players in multiplayer rps, who need quick siblings or quick pups of a certain wolf family? Just thought Id mention it. And on top of it, it could work with player to player as well, just ask permission first
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Re: Ideas for New Episodes/Future Updates

Post by OstO9 » Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:14 am

SmolGrimm2021 wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:47 am
I got a neat idea for the wolf player creator part, what if there was a way to mix your wolves? Just pick a male, female or ones of same genders and mix em, to create a randomised wolf. Could work for players in multiplayer rps, who need quick siblings or quick pups of a certain wolf family? Just thought Id mention it. And on top of it, it could work with player to player as well, just ask permission first
Very good idea!

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Re: Ideas for Future Updates

Post by solar-mutt » Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:32 pm

I think it's a bit weird that you can court the alpha/founder/breeding member of a pair out of their pack. For example Lamar 1F. She has a pack with 8 adult wolves, a loving mate (Lamar 1M) and a large territory. Why would she leave all of that behind for some dispersal? What can player-wolf offer her that the Lamar Canyon pack can't? I understand that say Lamar 2F for example could want to leave since she's related to everyone in the pack. But what could make the breeding female abandon her mate, pack, and territory for a random male who entered her space? Just a little odd. I think 1F/1M of stranger wolf packs shouldn't be courtable, but the rest of the pack members I don't see any problem with.

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Re: Ideas for Future Updates

Post by Neamara » Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:18 pm

@solar-mutt I think it has said before that "1" in a pack =/= "breeding pair". Wiki info suggests they're all siblings, but that doesn't have citation to link-back to unfortunately. ^^;
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Re: Ideas for Future Updates

Post by -Wolfdog- » Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:17 pm

I would love to see this incorporated into the upcoming Saga. The player’s mate should take on different sleeping positions and it could depend upon their personality, too. For example, a more cautious mate may take on the first default sleep pose, because they can get up quicker in case if their is any approaching danger. A more lazy mate may take on the curled-up position, meaning they are more comfortable in their environment (or perhaps more bold)?
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