You're Getting Veeery Sleeeepy...

Find out what we're doing and thinking as we develop WolfQuest 3: Anniversary Edition and the Tower Fall expansion!

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Re: You're Getting Veeery Sleeeepy...

Post by Koa » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:11 pm

Starbender2000 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:01 pm
I feel very mixed about this...as you can now regain health when resting the point of hunting is not just to feed yourself, but also your pups. This can be difficult if you can't really "hunt" I noticed in-game the pups get hungry very fast...Especially in BIO, this is one of the main reasons why the players go on a killing spree, the second one being to be able to regain health to survive and defend the pups themselves. But at the same time its making for a really unique game-play later! Can't wait to see it in full action! Also LOVE the sleepy wolf! XD

-StarBender2000 :wolf:
Note that it's also easy to get 'hungry' (by way of the health bar) in the current version of the game. Considering the changes to mechanics and realism made in WolfQuest 3 to your wolf, I don't think you will have to worry about pup health drastically decreasing like you do in the current game.

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Re: You're Getting Veeery Sleeeepy...

Post by Arcturus221B » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:32 am

I'm not sure how I feel about this tbh. It seems rather annoying to be forced to sleep every so often.. I'm really pleased hunger is added though. I definitely think that's a nice addition to the game.
loboLoco wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:41 pm
So today’s video looks at how these meters all work together to create (we think!) a better, more sophisticated model of wolf physiology that doesn’t impede gameplay but does help players go deeper into the mind of a wild wolf — which is our central goal with the entire project.
This confuses me somewhat. You're adding sleep but not thirst, while that fulfills this goal just as well? Thirst is something that you see in most animal simulation games, but not sleep. I don't see how being forced to sleep doesn't impede gameplay but adds to it, while thirst supposedly does impede gameplay?

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Re: You're Getting Veeery Sleeeepy...

Post by Brookleaf » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:14 pm

Arcturus221B wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:32 am
I'm not sure how I feel about this tbh. It seems rather annoying to be forced to sleep every so often.. I'm really pleased hunger is added though. I definitely think that's a nice addition to the game.
loboLoco wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:41 pm
So today’s video looks at how these meters all work together to create (we think!) a better, more sophisticated model of wolf physiology that doesn’t impede gameplay but does help players go deeper into the mind of a wild wolf — which is our central goal with the entire project.
This confuses me somewhat. You're adding sleep but not thirst, while that fulfills this goal just as well? Thirst is something that you see in most animal simulation games, but not sleep. I don't see how being forced to sleep doesn't impede gameplay but adds to it, while thirst supposedly does impede gameplay?
I understand where you're coming from in this, but WQ has explained this before- adding a thirst bar would eventually be incredibly annoying! They have added drinking, so if you really want to add that to your gameplay, the game now allows it, but they haven't added a thirst meter due to the fact that we, the players, would have to be running down from whatever den we choose, find the river or other water source in Amethyst Mountain (which is quite hard if you don't already know where it is, and thus would pose a problem for new players who don't know the map well), AND find a water source in Tower Fall, the upcoming episode (which may or may not be easy, as I haven't taken a good look at the map for it yet), all to get a drink and fill up a bar! And then, to add onto that, you have to think, that realistically, wolves may or may not have to drink often (of this fact I am not sure), and if they do, then you have to find the nearest river to drink in the middle of whatever you're doing, and often (or maybe not)- which is annoying. While it may be realistic, it does in fact impede gameplay more than this "forced sleeping," as you call it, does. But think again- do you not sleep, as a human being? It simply enhances the gameplay to add the realism that you can sleep, and (perhaps!) suffer the consequences of tiredness if you don't. From what I can tell, it will only take about one to two real life minutes to fill up your sleep bar, so really it doesn't impede gameplay almost at all.

I am saying this all in polite reply to you, Arcturus221B

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Re: You're Getting Veeery Sleeeepy...

Post by Arcturus221B » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:59 pm

Brookleaf wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:14 pm
Arcturus221B wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:32 am
I'm not sure how I feel about this tbh. It seems rather annoying to be forced to sleep every so often.. I'm really pleased hunger is added though. I definitely think that's a nice addition to the game.
loboLoco wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:41 pm
So today’s video looks at how these meters all work together to create (we think!) a better, more sophisticated model of wolf physiology that doesn’t impede gameplay but does help players go deeper into the mind of a wild wolf — which is our central goal with the entire project.
This confuses me somewhat. You're adding sleep but not thirst, while that fulfills this goal just as well? Thirst is something that you see in most animal simulation games, but not sleep. I don't see how being forced to sleep doesn't impede gameplay but adds to it, while thirst supposedly does impede gameplay?
I understand where you're coming from in this, but WQ has explained this before- adding a thirst bar would eventually be incredibly annoying! They have added drinking, so if you really want to add that to your gameplay, the game now allows it, but they haven't added a thirst meter due to the fact that we, the players, would have to be running down from whatever den we choose, find the river or other water source in Amethyst Mountain (which is quite hard if you don't already know where it is, and thus would pose a problem for new players who don't know the map well), AND find a water source in Tower Fall, the upcoming episode (which may or may not be easy, as I haven't taken a good look at the map for it yet), all to get a drink and fill up a bar! And then, to add onto that, you have to think, that realistically, wolves may or may not have to drink often (of this fact I am not sure), and if they do, then you have to find the nearest river to drink in the middle of whatever you're doing, and often (or maybe not)- which is annoying. While it may be realistic, it does in fact impede gameplay more than this "forced sleeping," as you call it, does. But think again- do you not sleep, as a human being? It simply enhances the gameplay to add the realism that you can sleep, and (perhaps!) suffer the consequences of tiredness if you don't. From what I can tell, it will only take about one to two real life minutes to fill up your sleep bar, so really it doesn't impede gameplay almost at all.

I am saying this all in polite reply to you, Arcturus221B
Don't worry! No hard feelings :'D

It's just that I find it a little hard to understand how sleep is a realism aspect that is okay and supposedly fun to add (even though it interrupts gameplay more, in my opinion, than thirst), while thirst is not, even though this is a basic need in most sim games. Don't get me wrong, I can see why they wouldn't want to add yet another meter to the game (and I'm fine with that) and if done incorrectly it can definitely be annoying, but coming from a bunch of other sim games thirst is an important aspect for me, personally. I can see thirst being done without getting annoying, like it depletes very slowly (I also don't know how long wolves can go without, but I imagine it's quite a while) and maybe we could also get some water from food and even snow? Or just a small boost so it lasts longer? The dos game WOLF did this, too. When it snowed, your wolf could eat snow to fill up it's thirst meter. That way, you don't have to run to a river or some small lake as often. This would definitely help in the AM map. I don't think it's too big of an issue in SC with all the water flowing around haha, not to mention we have a map right at our fingertips so finding where water is shouldn't be all too hard ;3

For me, thirst enhances gameplay the same way sleep does for you, as it is a very important, basic need all animals need to fulfill in real life.
_________

Speaking of, will drinking only fill up your stamina, or will it increase your stamina pool? I assume it's the latter?

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Re: You're Getting Veeery Sleeeepy...

Post by paperpaws » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:05 pm

Arcturus221B wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:59 pm
Speaking of, will drinking only fill up your stamina, or will it increase your stamina pool? I assume it's the latter?
The development of the mechanics may well have changed since, but this is the most recent post I could find on that from June 2017:
loboLoco wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:25 am
Drinking water will restore your stamina and give you a 10-15% health increase -- we'll have a timer so you won't get another health boost from drinking for five minutes, or something like that.
From an old devblog: viewtopic.php?f=97&t=82877

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Re: You're Getting Veeery Sleeeepy...

Post by Brookleaf » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:29 pm

Arcturus221B wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:59 pm

Don't worry! No hard feelings :'D

It's just that I find it a little hard to understand how sleep is a realism aspect that is okay and supposedly fun to add (even though it interrupts gameplay more, in my opinion, than thirst), while thirst is not, even though this is a basic need in most sim games. Don't get me wrong, I can see why they wouldn't want to add yet another meter to the game (and I'm fine with that) and if done incorrectly it can definitely be annoying, but coming from a bunch of other sim games thirst is an important aspect for me, personally. I can see thirst being done without getting annoying, like it depletes very slowly (I also don't know how long wolves can go without, but I imagine it's quite a while) and maybe we could also get some water from food and even snow? Or just a small boost so it lasts longer? The dos game WOLF did this, too. When it snowed, your wolf could eat snow to fill up it's thirst meter. That way, you don't have to run to a river or some small lake as often. This would definitely help in the AM map. I don't think it's too big of an issue in SC with all the water flowing around haha, not to mention we have a map right at our fingertips so finding where water is shouldn't be all too hard ;3

For me, thirst enhances gameplay the same way sleep does for you, as it is a very important, basic need all animals need to fulfill in real life.
I definitely see where you stand! And I do agree, it SHOULDN'T be too hard to find water with the maps, especially with how they are now updated (thanks WQ team!)! I also agree that a thirst meter does/may enhance gameplay in many situations, and even in WolfQuest! Personally, I think it would be amazing to be able to get a drink from snow, but I'm not sure if wolves from Yellowstone would do this. I know that Arctic wolves do, as there aren't very many actual water sources (as far as I know!), but wolves in Yellowstone do have access to rivers or pools. So I would love it if that was added, but they might not due to realism and budget/time things. I respect and nod to the fact that you find immersion in places where other people may not (thirst! I think it's really cool that it enhances gameplay a lot for you!), and I am extremely glad to both politely agree and disagree! :3

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Re: You're Getting Veeery Sleeeepy...

Post by Phasoli » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:41 pm

I like the idea of a thirst bar as well, but I’ve gotta say—this set up works very well for me because it’s realistic and efficient. I know that a lot of other animal sims include thirst, and I’m not against that, but what we have now is more than enough to keep up with in my opinion. Sure, thirst could drain a bit more slowly than the other needs, but it still needs to be replenished by venturing far and wide to a nearby water source. Sleeping is local and temporary. Plus, with the amazing visuals that come with it, I find it more than tolerable! Slough Creek is going to be a whole lot bigger than it is now, keep in mind. It may mean we have more of the Creek to explore, but it could also mean that we have that much more land to cover too. What I’m trying to say here is that, at least in my opinion, sleep is less game-breaking so to speak than thirst because it allows the player to reasonably replenish their energy and follow the realistic patterns of wolf-activity. Not that drinking can’t but it’ll require the player to go out of their way to fulfill that need. Perhaps if we had puddle-mechanics for when it rained, or some access to smaller local drinking sources, it would solve that problem. Gaining water from food seems pretty realistic too, but I can only imagine that it will get the player so far until they require a proper drink. Drinking is realistic too, but it’s another bar to keep track of. It’s like playing The Sims in a sense: I found that if I wanted to keep my characters happy, I would have to spend more time tending to their needs than doing what I’d like to do with them in-game, haha. There are just so many bars and needs to fulfill in order to keep them happy! It’s not too game-breaking so much as it’s realistic for The Sims, but wow! I’d love it if my Sims could spend more time doing what I wanted them to do than eating or showering, or using the washroom, haha. So imagine having a lot of meters to keep track of on top of your mate and pups’ meters to keep going. Based on another blog post in the past, mates may have the potential to die, so I imagine that if thirst were included, their needs would need to be kept track of too. And think of the pups! Imagine four thirsty puppies to tend to, haha. I’m not saying that adding another meter would make WolfQuest like The Sims. My point is that it would be a lot more to take care of.

Maybe this is my personal preference, but I like how things have settled as they currently are. Playing as a wolf is going to be so revolutionary with these new systems in mind! Thirst has never been extremely important to me, but hey—we get to drink, so that’s a nice plus. It’ll make for some fun and interesting roleplay, surely.

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