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Genes Behind the Scenes

Find out what we're doing and thinking as we develop WolfQuest 3: Anniversary Edition and the Tower Fall expansion!

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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby wolfadore » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:42 pm

Aww they are so cute! So, if they are grey, will some of them die of diseases? Or is that just a fact in the wild that you were sharing?
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby airbones » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:12 pm

aaAAA! By far my favorite update so far! I remember being in school and using Punnett squares to learn about genetics, and finding it so interesting, so implementing it into the game is going to be awesome to see! Having to weigh the potential risk and reward of choosing a certain mate is going to be a really nice addition.

wolfadore wrote:So, if they are grey, will some of them die of diseases? Or is that just a fact in the wild that you were sharing?

I also was curious about this. Also, does this mean that the white pup you get after obtaining a certain amount of exp is getting removed? I personally have no attachment to it, and from a realism standpoint I'd imagine that feature might be taken out of the game.
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby Noala » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:11 pm

I have 1 question.

Ok so I understand what you’re saying about how the game will determine puppy coat colors based on their parents coat color which is determined by dominant or recessive traits. I also understand that would be applied in single player when we actually have a mate.

But what about multiplayer games?
We have the host player and let’s say 5 other players who joined the server. we all assume the host is a “parent” and the other players are playing the roles of older pups from earlier litters of the host. but my question is how will the new litters coat colors be determined in multiplayer games if they have no defined parent pair aside from the host which I assumed was the single “mom” or “Dad” depending on the host wolf gender. Also how can you even have pups or a pack with just 1 parent, don’t packs typically split up when there is no longer a parent or “breeding pair”
To be honest I’ve never understood how pup coat color was determined in multiplayer games Or who are considered the parents. Could something please be done about that to make it more realistic in multiplayer. Simply giving us the option of a pc mate in multiplayer would be great.

In WolfQuest 3 I would personally love if the host of multiplayer games would be able to choose a npc mate before the pup game starts so that pup coat color can accurately be based on the parent pair. Having a mate in multiplayer would also help the host if no one joins their server becuase it won’t leave a single parent caring for what could possibly be a large litter.
Please consider this if it wouldn’t disrupt or over complicate the game mechanics in multiplayer.
Thank you :D :wolf: :mrgreen:
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby DaniBeez » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:06 pm

Kitsuma wrote:I have a question about the "dog" gene. Since dogs were domesticated by people, doesn't that mean dog genes are technically wolf genes?

The K-black phenotype emerged first in domestic dogs from a random DNA mutation event. Then through artificial selection, i.e. forcing certain animals to breed with others, humans increased the frequency of this mutation in the dog population. Remember that the common ancestor of both modern wolves and dogs had the K gene, but not the K-black version (allele) of it that creates a black-colored canid. So: K-black first emerged in dogs, and then started appearing in North American wolves too when K-black dogs mated with wolves many times over several generations, until the K-black allele became fixed (common) in the wolf population too.

Figure 3D of this paper might help, but it's the same one that's in Dave's video.


loboLoco wrote:Yeah, I should have mentioned that more clearly. We'll be sure to do so in the future.

No worries! It's possible no one will actually look into the genetic principles behind the game mechanics for coat color :P. I remember in high school getting stuck on the squares though with that same problem.

Lobo Loco wrote:Right. We've got a couple other aspects of the genetics design that I didn't mention. For one thing, the genetic profile that we're creating for each wolf will have 5-10 genes for coat tint and for each of the stat-traits, each randomly set as 0, 1, or 2, then we'll add up all those to determine the final score for the trait. That's a crude approximation of the real genome, but probably sufficient for our purposes. (We may also have some of those genes have counter-effects on other traits -- such as a gene that contributes to higher speed might also affect stamina downwards .)

Oh I don't disagree that you have to simplify things for the game. The only thing I know about game design is that you have to make compromises :lol: ! I just wanted to provide that information for the interest of anyone reading the comments.
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby howl-ite » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:18 am

i love Punnett squares and genetics so it’s great that this is being implemented
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby alleykat3000 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:55 am

This is one of the best ideas yet WQ! I love the look of the new pups, you all are AMAZING at animating and creating the new wolf models, this would really make finding a mate more interesting, when the game comes out, I would make my wolf look for one of the best males she can find. Good luck with the rest of the game coding (and modeling)!! :D :D
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby SheWolf17 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:54 pm

Super interesting. OMG, finally the litter will have no limit of 4 pups. And the possibility of some pups being more resistant to disease is magnificent! <3 :D

I've been thinking of something. In a video on the YouTube channel, a player asked a very interesting question for me (but I did not see if you answered). He asked, if there was a possibility to rotate the camera, as in The Isle. For example, when you turn the mouse to a certain place, the dinosaur's head moves. That would be pretty good, instead of moving the whole wolf's body - He said.
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby paperpaws » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:45 pm

SheWolf17 wrote:I've been thinking of something. In a video on the YouTube channel, a player asked a very interesting question for me (but I did not see if you answered). He asked, if there was a possibility to rotate the camera, as in The Isle. For example, when you turn the mouse to a certain place, the dinosaur's head moves. That would be pretty good, instead of moving the whole wolf's body - He said.

I'm not sure about the wolf's head moving along with the direction you're looking in, but changes are definitely coming to the way the camera works. Ride of the Wapiti mentions we will be able to use right-click to orbit the camera.

Older versions of the game technically already have a way to change the camera without moving your wolf (with the 'O' and bracket/parentheses keys) but it's very choppy and difficult to use, particularly during high-speed situations like hunting or chasing off predators.

I hope that answers your question!
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby duskypack » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:19 pm

Anduril wrote:
SheWolf17 wrote:I've been thinking of something. In a video on the YouTube channel, a player asked a very interesting question for me (but I did not see if you answered). He asked, if there was a possibility to rotate the camera, as in The Isle. For example, when you turn the mouse to a certain place, the dinosaur's head moves. That would be pretty good, instead of moving the whole wolf's body - He said.

I'm not sure about the wolf's head moving along with the direction you're looking in, but changes are definitely coming to the way the camera works. Ride of the Wapiti mentions we will be able to use right-click to orbit the camera.

Older versions of the game technically already have a way to change the camera without moving your wolf (with the 'O' and bracket keys) but it's very choppy and difficult to use, particularly during high-speed situations like hunting or chasing off predators.

I hope that answers your question!

The current version also has it, with O but parentheses instead of brackets and + and - to zoom in and out, respectively. It's gotten a bit smoother but it takes practice. Wasn't sure if by "older versions" you meant versions before Wolfquest 3 and versions before 2.7, so just in case I thought I'd clarify that 2.7.x has that feature still.
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby Noctis_ » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:04 am

Anduril wrote:
SheWolf17 wrote:I've been thinking of something. In a video on the YouTube channel, a player asked a very interesting question for me (but I did not see if you answered). He asked, if there was a possibility to rotate the camera, as in The Isle. For example, when you turn the mouse to a certain place, the dinosaur's head moves. That would be pretty good, instead of moving the whole wolf's body - He said.

I'm not sure about the wolf's head moving along with the direction you're looking in, but changes are definitely coming to the way the camera works. Ride of the Wapiti mentions we will be able to use right-click to orbit the camera.

I'd really like a head-turn feature; It would make the wolf models look more living, and less stiff and statue-like. I've played games where the player animal's head moves with the camera, and it adds a more immersive/interactive feel, especially with multiplayer games.

Kitsuma wrote:I have a question about the "dog" gene. Since dogs were domesticated by people, doesn't that mean dog genes are technically wolf genes?

Dogs are, technically, one of the subspecies of the wolf. Gray wolves are Canis lupus, and dogs are Canis lupus familiaris, where familiaris is the subspecies name.

AirBones wrote:
wolfadore wrote:So, if they are grey, will some of them die of diseases? Or is that just a fact in the wild that you were sharing?

I also was curious about this. Also, does this mean that the white pup you get after obtaining a certain amount of exp is getting removed? I personally have no attachment to it, and from a realism standpoint I'd imagine that feature might be taken out of the game.

I actually dislike having the white puppy, for the most part, and would rather have puppies that match my wolf and my wolf's mate's coat colors. But the white puppy is so famous that it would almost be a shame to just get rid of it. Perhaps the white puppy could be carried over, but the chances of getting one would just be much lower? It would still only be possible at all for people with the required XP amount.
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby Pepper » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:13 am

wolfadore wrote:Aww they are so cute! So, if they are grey, will some of them die of diseases? Or is that just a fact in the wild that you were sharing?


We are adding in illness/disease as a small game element. Some pups may fall ill (and some might recover). There isn't a lot a wolf parent can do, so there probably won't be any gameplay here (no nursing back to health, gathering herbs, or similar ideas that players sometimes request). However, because we have learned some pups' genetics might give them a higher resistance to disease, we can include this in the likelihood of a given pup getting sick and recovering. Disease resistance differences probably are not huge factor or are balanced out by other things, in real life. Otherwise there would be fewer coat differences in the wild (if one color was easily wiped out by disease). But we thought the KK/Kk/kk risks/rewards were interesting enough to include them in WQ 3.

Noala wrote:I have 1 question.
But what about multiplayer games?


Good question. We are thinking hard about the way to calculate litter makeup in multiplayer because, as you note, there are not designated parents in multiplayer. There are a lot of problems of having designated parents in multiplayer -- both technically and with the unintended ways that it could shift the gameplay and focus of WolfQuest. For example, the host does not necessarily want to be the parent or dominant wolf. Picking another player for the other parent would also be challenging, whether the game assigned the first player who entered or if the host got to choose. Both would invite all the human mating/dating/pairing dynamics and drama that we discourage in multiplayer games. Also, what happens when the non-host parent player exits the game? So, we are thinking about options. If anyone has ideas, we love hearing them!
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby SheWolf17 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:31 pm

Anduril wrote:
SheWolf17 wrote:I've been thinking of something. In a video on the YouTube channel, a player asked a very interesting question for me (but I did not see if you answered). He asked, if there was a possibility to rotate the camera, as in The Isle. For example, when you turn the mouse to a certain place, the dinosaur's head moves. That would be pretty good, instead of moving the whole wolf's body - He said.

I'm not sure about the wolf's head moving along with the direction you're looking in, but changes are definitely coming to the way the camera works. Ride of the Wapiti mentions we will be able to use right-click to orbit the camera.

Older versions of the game technically already have a way to change the camera without moving your wolf (with the 'O' and bracket/parentheses keys) but it's very choppy and difficult to use, particularly during high-speed situations like hunting or chasing off predators.

I hope that answers your question!


First of all, thank you for trying to answer my question. :D

Well, in that video you indicated shows the "Beta tester" changing the camera of the wolf, but I did not see that the wolf's head moved in some direction. And I agree with Noctis_ because that would make the wolf model more "realistic" and more lively, where it would not stand looking forward. As in ''The Isle'' or ''Wild Savannah (Roblox)''.

It would really be cool and much more useful! :mrgreen:
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby DaniBeez » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:58 pm

Pepper wrote:Good question. We are thinking hard about the way to calculate litter makeup in multiplayer because, as you note, there are not designated parents in multiplayer. There are a lot of problems of having designated parents in multiplayer -- both technically and with the unintended ways that it could shift the gameplay and focus of WolfQuest. For example, the host does not necessarily want to be the parent or dominant wolf. Picking another player for the other parent would also be challenging, whether the game assigned the first player who entered or if the host got to choose. Both would invite all the human mating/dating/pairing dynamics and drama that we discourage in multiplayer games. Also, what happens when the non-host parent player exits the game? So, we are thinking about options. If anyone has ideas, we love hearing them!

Is it a viable option to just keep the coat colors either random or fixed for MP? Would save you some coding headaches!
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby SolitaryHowl » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:36 pm

Pepper wrote: If anyone has ideas, we love hearing them!


Having the pup coats randomized would solve that problem.
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Re: Genes Behind the Scenes

Postby paperpaws » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:07 am

SolitaryHowl wrote:
Pepper wrote: If anyone has ideas, we love hearing them!


Having the pup coats randomized would solve that problem.

This sounds good to me. Can either be completely random or just randomly select two player coat genes for each puppy. The first one honestly sounds the most convenient.
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