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Take Me to the River?

Find out what we're doing and thinking as we develop WolfQuest 3: Anniversary Edition and the Tower Fall expansion!

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Re: Take Me to the River?

Postby Polynesia » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:03 pm

A game which has a really nice representation of stamina is Shelter 2. It's indicated by a white circle in the corner of your screen, which recedes when you use up energy from running. The circle is only visible when it's incomplete (i.e. when your stamina is not full) which keeps your screen from being too messy. Here is a screenshot of it (bottom left): https://s.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/a0184379efdeca65e6861aa4ec44ae3/200977120/shelter2_screenshot_3.jpg

It could be a good idea to represent stamina independently like in Shelter 2, and replace the green stamina bar with an orange hunger bar. Stamina is the odd one out, so it makes more sense for hunger and health to be together than health and stamina, since hunger and health have a relationship with one another.

Stamina isn't something you always need to be aware of, so you could argue that it's a waste of a bar. For example, you would have no use for a stamina bar when your wolf is relaxed, because you would already know that your stamina is full.
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Re: Take Me to the River?

Postby CapriciousCeilican » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:13 am

To reinforce Poly's point, The Long Dark does this as well: http://prntscr.com/hlhz7o
The HUD is hidden unless you call on it with the tab key, which is another way to keep the screen free of clutter.
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Re: Take Me to the River?

Postby Quikke » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:22 pm

I don't particularly think a hunger bar may be a good decision as of yet, but I do think the stamina bar can behave differently than it has been in 2.7 and versions before it.

Perhaps changing the HUD to a more minimalist circle system? Appearance can be flashy, but the bars that need priority (health, territory marking, pup rearing) can be brought to the forefront? And then the stamina can be a different circle bar that wraps around it and either is always there, or only appears when stamina is recovering or when you're doing something physically demanding of the wolf.

like this https://i.gyazo.com/4dee1b9d25e9405098a ... f71fe1.png - it's quick and sloppy, and not exactly what I mean, but it's close enough to what I'm referring to.
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Re: Take Me to the River?

Postby roguemoon » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:33 pm

Quikke wrote:I don't particularly think a hunger bar may be a good decision as of yet, but I do think the stamina bar can behave differently than it has been in 2.7 and versions before it.

Perhaps changing the HUD to a more minimalist circle system? Appearance can be flashy, but the bars that need priority (health, territory marking, pup rearing) can be brought to the forefront? And then the stamina can be a different circle bar that wraps around it and either is always there, or only appears when stamina is recovering or when you're doing something physically demanding of the wolf.

like this https://i.gyazo.com/4dee1b9d25e9405098a ... f71fe1.png - it's quick and sloppy, and not exactly what I mean, but it's close enough to what I'm referring to.


"it's quick and sloppy" BRUH Quikka that looks rad. I also LOVE this idea, I definitely think the HUD needs a refreshing makeover.
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Re: Take Me to the River?

Postby Koa » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:40 pm

I mean, I know when I'm hungry, I am fatigued and have barely any stamina. Like right now. Also this will not make any sense because I have been writing a paper sooooooooooooo


I do not think there is a need for additional meters. Small icons could notate one's thirst or hunger, like the health icon of the mate, but even those may not be necessary. You could instead include details about hunger and thirst affecting your wolf's health and stamina in the tutorial or have notifications pop up after a certain amount of time depending on the user's difficulty setting and/or preferences.

In that case, the aspects of both 'thirst' and 'hunger' should be time-based, with hunger being the most, severe, if you will, in terms of length of time passed before one's last meal and how much it affects both one's health and stamina bar. The issue of thirst should affect one's health and stamina bar a little more quickly, but not as severely, as hunger, until a certain amount of time has passed and then the effects of thirst... multiply? I'm thinking of a system akin to WOLF except without the thirst bar... but a system that maintains WolfQuest's stamina bar. Basically, the system would have the same effects of thirst and hunger on your health bar as WOLF (perhaps not as drastic because WOLF felt like a constant run-around and find the stuff you need to consume before you die) but would maintain the visual of the stamina bar.

I do argree that the HUD should receive a makeover, but I'd prefer the new HUD to be as simplistic as possible with neutral/toned down colors.
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Re: Take Me to the River?

Postby Polynesia » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:07 pm

Quikke wrote:I don't particularly think a hunger bar may be a good decision as of yet, but I do think the stamina bar can behave differently than it has been in 2.7 and versions before it.

Perhaps changing the HUD to a more minimalist circle system? Appearance can be flashy, but the bars that need priority (health, territory marking, pup rearing) can be brought to the forefront? And then the stamina can be a different circle bar that wraps around it and either is always there, or only appears when stamina is recovering or when you're doing something physically demanding of the wolf.

like this https://i.gyazo.com/4dee1b9d25e9405098a ... f71fe1.png - it's quick and sloppy, and not exactly what I mean, but it's close enough to what I'm referring to.


That looks really nice actually, and the wolf in the middle is awesome.. WQ should totally hire you to draw the HUD! :D

I still think a bar for hunger would be good. I don't like how the health bar in the game acts as a hunger bar. It decreases on its own and can only be refilled by eating, when it should actually be the other way around; it should regenerate over time, instead of decrease over time. The only time your health should decrease without an external factor (by external factor I mean being kicked or injured by another animal) is when your hunger/food is at 0 and your wolf begins to starve. I don't play many other video games apart from WQ so I might be wrong, but I think that's how most games do it.

The reasoning is that if you are attacked and left with low health, you are now under an immense amount of pressure because your health is still decreasing over time due to hunger, so you have to find food in order to replenish your health (which is illogical.. how can eating magically heal you after you've been kicked by an elk or mauled by a bear?) while also being vulnerable to another attack. Being able to heal your injuries and regenerate your health by a few seconds of eating is unrealistic. Your health should gradually regenerate on its own, like it does in real life, with hunger as an independent factor.

Besides, if the stamina visual is going to be reworked and separated from the others, then it frees up a space for another meter. If hunger is added, then the number of bars you have to maintain actually remains the same. Health and stamina would recover by themselves, which means territory, pack affinity, and hunger are the only bars you'd have to actively refill, and that's assuming you have pups.
Last edited by Polynesia on Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Take Me to the River?

Postby Quikke » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:21 pm

I actually prefer for hunger to stack on another bar instead of being on its own, since 5 bars to watch, no matter how neatly it is organized, simply feels a bit too crowded (especially when Mate/Pup health is factored in as well). However, I think it'd make much more sense (and not complicate the gameplay too much) for Hunger to not stack with Health, but for it to stack with Stamina. I've seen mentions of Shelter 2, and a part of the stamina wheel it has, is that it only replenishes on it's own to a certain point. To fully restore your stamina and thus have plenty of energy to chase your prey, you have to eat something you catch instead of giving it to your cubs.

Maybe it can act similar here? It could be like a 'less fuel for the tank' kind of hunger, instead of a 'your health will deplete to 0 if you do not go out and eat'.

Exhausting your stamina too much will cause it to no longer deplete fully and only give you enough to dodge/attack/whatever with a number of cooldowns. It'll also give the drinking mechanic - something mostly optional - actual use? Since it will essentially make Hunger and Thirst a subtle influence on how productive your wolf is.

Reason why I'd prefer something like this is I've watched footage of animals get very distressed when they're hungry. They have plenty of energy to run around and continue to do so when they try to catch food, but they get more desperate and more stressed the longer it goes, which can cause their health to decline by risk of injury when making a bad choice in foot item.

IDK I'm just rambling at this point haha;;;
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